008060AN ARCHITECT'DIVIDUALITY IS DERIVED FROM RELATIONSHIPSRIZHAO CITY CLUB CHINAINTERVIEW2011-|Rizhao,Shandong,China CLUB艺术家的个性源自于关系性|采访中国日照城市俱乐部2011|中国，山东，日照1瞭022064HOUSE KSMALLEST/LARGEST ART MUSEL2010-12 Hyogo,Japan RESIDENCE2011-|Chateau La Coste,Aix-en-Prover筑K12010-121日本，兵库县1住宅最小的1最大的艺术博物馆|2011川法国，普罗旺斯032068LA SMALL HOUSEVITAMIN SPACE ART GALLERY2010-|Los Angeles,California,U.S.A.GUEST HOUSE2011-|Guangzhou,China ART GALLEF小房子12010叫美国，加利福尼亚，洛杉矶|宾馆维他命空间艺术画廊|2011|中国，广州|艺术画廊035073NUBE ARENAALL IS ONE,ONE IS ALL2010-|Las Torres de Cotillas,Spain AUDITORIUM/PUBLIC SPACEINTERVIEW云馆|2010叫西班牙，穆尔西亚省|礼堂1公共场所一切即是一，一即是一切1采访KULTUR PROJEKTE BE荣LSSERFENTINE GALLERY PAVILION0400861C2010-|Berlin,Germany EXHIBITION SPACE2012-13 Kensington Gardens,London,柏林工程文化|2010德国，柏林|展览空间蛇形画廊展馆12012.131英国，伦敦，肯辛顿花园1044100PUBLIC TOILET IN ICHIHARAGEOMETRIC FOREST-SOLO HO2011-12 Ichihara,Chiba,Japan PUBLIC LAVATORY2012-|Cretas,Spain RESIDENCE市原的公厕1201121日本，千叶市，市原1公厕几何森林-独栋别墅项目12012|西班牙，克里特|046104NORMANDY RENOVATION PROJECTTAIWAN PAVILION2011-|Normandy,France RESIDENCE2012-|Tainan,Taiwan PAVILION/SHO诺曼底修葺工程|201川法国，诺曼底1住宅台湾展馆120121台湾，台南1展馆1陈列室048107BETON HALA WATERFRONT CENTERCONNECTICUT POOL HOUSE2011-|Belgrade,Serbia COMMERCIAL BUILDING COMPLEX2012-|Connecticut,U.S.A.POOL HOUBeton Hala滨水中心|201l-塞尔维亚，贝尔格莱德|商业综合楼康乃迪克州的泳池别墅12012|美国，康乃迪克州|054112TAIWAN TOWERCATALUNYA HOUSE2011-|Taichung,Taiwan OBSERVATORY /MUSEUM2012-|Caldes de Malavella,Spain RES台湾塔1201台湾，台中1瞭望台1博物馆加泰罗尼亚筑|2012|西班牙，卡尔德斯德马拉维運筑素村网Z.Z沁.ET 142ST CENTURY RAINFOREST ARCHITECTUREMOUNTAIN HOTEL12 Libreville,Gabon CONFERENCE CENTER2012-|China HOTEL±纪雨林筑|20121加蓬，利伯维尔|会议中心山岳宾馆12012-|中国1宾馆150NERGY FORESTGINZA BUILDING12-IURBAN PLANNING2012-|Tokyo,Japan|OFFICE/RESIDENCE森林12012.1城市规划银座大楼12012|日本，东京|写字楼1住宅154REE SKYSCRAPERJJ99 YOUTH HOSTEL12-URBAN PLANNING2012-13 Tainan,Taiwan|HOTEL摩天楼12012-|城市规划J小99青年旅社12012.131台湾，台南1宾馆156UISIANA CLOUDSETONOMORI HOUSES12-URBAN PLANNING2012-13 I Coastal Area of the Seto Inland Sea,斯安那的云12012-|城市规划Setonomori住宅|2012-131日本，濑户内海沿岸地区|市政165USEUM IN THE FORESTZTAIWAN CAFE12-|Taoyuan County,Taiwan MUSEUM2013-|Tainan,Taiwan CAFE里的博物馆|2012|合湾，桃园县引博物馆台湾咖啡馆120131台湾，台南1咖啡馆170ENTER OF TRADITIONAL PERFORMING ART IZUNOKUNICHILE HOUSE12-|lzunokuni,Shizuoka,Japan AUDITORIUM2013-|Los Vilos,Chile RESIDENCE之国市的传统表演艺术中心|2012|日本，静冈，伊豆之国市1礼堂智利屋|2013-智利，罗斯维拉斯|住宅176JZ MUSEUMSOUK MIRAGE/PARTICLES OF LIGHT12-|Shanghai,China|MUSEUM2013-|COMMERCIAL BUILDING COMPLEX耀博物馆|20121中国，上海|博物馆露天剧场1光之芒(Souk MiragelParticles of Light)I2013182JTUROSPEKTIVE ARCHITEKTUROUTLOOK TOWER12|Kunsthalle Bielefeld,Bielefeld,Germany EXHIBITION2013-|OBSERVATORY/WATER PLAZArospektive筑I20121德国，比勒菲尔德，比勒菲尔德艺术馆|展览膝望塔|2013瞭望台1喷泉广场190RCHITECTURE AS FORESTLIST OF PROJECTS12-13 SICLI Pavilion,Geneva,Switzerland EXHIBITION2010-筑12012-131瑞士，日内瓦，S1CLU展馆|展览项目列表12010運筑素村网Z..ET IS SERPENTINE AN ARCHITECTURE?蛇形画廊的蜿蜒曲折也是一种筑艺术吗？GA After a series of in-depth talks for our publication环球筑：2011年，为了《藤本壮介读物》一书的of The Sou Fujimoto Reader in 2011,you have been more出版，我们进行了一系列深入的谈话。在那之后，也就是and more engaged in projects that call for reality for thepast two years,including the Serpentine Gallery Pavil-过去的两年里，您一直积极地参与一些提倡实用性的项目ion (2013,p.86-)that came to be completed in June this中，包括今年六月成的蛇形画廊展馆(2013，P86-)。year.Up to now you have been tackling given themes in到目前为止，您一直在试图用一种纯真的方式（笑）来抓an innocent way (laughs)which had a charm to it,but住一些给定的主题。这种方式的单纯性对要表现的主题来looking at you now we notice a certain evolution taking说是很有魅力的。但是，现在再来审视您，我们注意到您place in the process of adjusting your ideas to reality.A while ago in a conversation with Tadao Ando I在调整自己的观念，使其在面向现实性的过程中有了一定said that the type of things Fujimoto does is different的进步。from conventional architecture.Your work is regarded as不久之前，在和安藤：忠雄的一次谈话中我说过a sort of detonator,or architectural art,which is,of藤本壮介所创作的筑类型不同于传统的筑。人们把您course,what the clients are asking for,but there's thisinnocence of yours as a given (laughs).Traditionally,的作品看做是一种导火索，或者是一种筑艺术。当然，there's been a notion that architecture is a totality of这些作品也是应客户要求而做的。但是，整体来说，其中mixture between ideas and methods,the hot and the也有您的纯真在里面（笑）。从传统上来说，一直以来的cool.But maybe that's not the case anymore.概念是：筑是思想和方法、热和冷的混合体。但是，事Your success with Serpentine is symbolic.In spite实可能并非如此。of the fact that everybody sees that as architecture,I seeit as an architectural situation,not architecture.I think您在蛇形画廊方面所取得的成功是很有象征意义的。it's too early to call it an architecture.It works because尽管，事实上，每个人将其看作是一种筑，但是我却it's pure,without frills,And as I said,the way it emerged将其看作是一种筑形态，一而非单纯的筑。我认为将其was definitelfereom0ol4 ad of称之为筑还为时过早它的魅力在于其单纯性，面非过architecture.So for me,it was a signifcant phenomenonin the sense that new circumstances are beginning to多的装饰。就像我说过的那样，它所呈现出来的方式和古emerge in architecture.老的筑传统完全不同。因此，对我来说，从一定程度上Do you personally identify yourself as being closer可以说，它是筑艺术里开始孕育新思想的一种重要的象to the traditional architect,or would continue working征。your way to being a sort of a trickster in society?您个人认为您和传统筑风格更亲近，还是愿意继Sou Fujimoto (SF)Serpentine was indeed a case ofpeculiarity.With a rather flexible program of a pavilion,续做一名现代社会的魔术师？you have an absolute mission to make it the talk of the藤本壮介：蛇形画廊确实是一个奇特的个案。面对相town,and it inevitably becomes a certain kind of state-当灵活的展馆项目，您会有一种绝对的使命，想要将它打ment.But my first thought was that I didn't want to get造为城市的谈资，而且，不可避免地，它会成为一种特定carried away in the situation and create something super-ficial and flashy,just spinning my wheels.The client first的宣言。但是，我的第一想法是：我并不想与现实情形相told me:"it's a Barcelona Pavilion of today that you're脱离，我不想设计一些肤浅、庸俗的东西。我只想跟随自going to create here"(laughs).An incredibly challenging己的思想前进。客户首先告诉我：“您将要设计的将是今situation,in which I had to transcend architecture while日的巴塞罗那展馆”（笑）。毫无疑向，我面临着巨大的to that end the result had to be an architecture,from top挑战。我需要完完全全地超越一般的筑。虽然，最终，to bottom.A trickster in society might be a good way of put-它还是一栋筑。ting it.For better or for worse,in order to have that sort of社会魔术师可能是创作它的最好人选。不管怎样，筑素村网Z沁.ETInterview:An Architect's Individuality is Derived from Relationships9 power,the result has to be linked to 'architecture.'If you为了实现一种力量，最终，它还必须与·筑’有关。如create something outlandish outside the frame of architec-果您设计了一些超出筑框架的古怪东西，那么您只会引ture,you'll just make people say "oh isn't that peculiar?"得人们说：“噢！那是不是太奇怪了？”它是这样一种and that's it.It's got to be an architecture that will givepeople a whole new understanding on architecture.筑：会使人们对筑有一种全新的理解。For me,the basis of such 'architecture'is 'a place对我来说，这种·筑’的出发点是·这是一个可for people to spend some time'-in a rather loosely-knit以供人们消磨时光的地方’一一这是一个人们聚集在一situation,where people gather.Regardless of the size of起也相当宽松舒适的环境。不管聚集的人群的大小，关键the group,what matters is to create a cue for people to是要为人们在那里消磨时光创造一个契机。这是过去十年spend some time there.That's been the basis of my ideaof architecture for over ten years,to which I've been里，我的筑思想的基础。对此，我一直在努力将其付诸trying to give shape.实践。GA When I saw your Final Wooden House (2008)some环球筑：前段时间，我看到您的终极木屋(2008)time ago I saw it as something close to a playground时，我将其看作是一个类似于运动场设施或者是荒诞剧的equipment or folly,and because it's not architecture it pos-sesses a certain freedom that creates a situation which东西。因为，它看起来不像是一栋筑，它有一定的自由makes it easier to have people get involved.性。这种自由使得人们能更容易地参与其中。SF I'd be against calling it a playground equipment,藤本壮介：我不同意将其称之为运动场设施。但是，but if you ask me the reason why it's not,I can't exactly如果您问我不同意的原因。我也不能准确地说出来（大tell (laughs).笑)。For me,what makes an architecture is the qualityof time spent in a place that's defined by an object,rather对我来说，由物体限定出来一个地方，在那里人们than a place to play with that object.Unlike play equip-消磨时光的质量形成了筑：面不是一个与物体玩耍的地ments or art,that object or space itself is not the end「方才是是筑与游乐设施和艺术不同，物体和空间本身并result:there's this place,n which spatial conscicuents不是最终结果：在这个地方，空间成分只有很小的存在感have little presence and don't bother people as they comeand sit,have a chat with friends,and spend some time不会影响人们进出、坐坐、与朋友聊天或者在那呆一会儿there.That imagery has always been with me,as the这一意象一直伴随着我，这是我进行筑设计的第一步。very first step of architecture.运用正确的空间密度量~惬意地环绕或者舒适地开With the right amount of variety of spatial density放一空间就会变成筑，而不仅仅是广义程度上的·地-nicely enclosed or comfortably open-the space方'。回头再看看蛇形画廊，我认为我所信奉的简单的现becomes an architecture,not just a vast extent of 'place.'Looking back on Serpentine I think that the idea of a实就是一直深埋在我思想深处的筑的出发点。很幸运，straightforward realization of what I believe is the start-这一场所的公共特性和历年展馆的历史很自然地形成一种ing point of architecture has always been at the back of社会潮流。尽管这里只是一个地方的‘原始筑’类型，my mind.Luckily,the site's public character and the his-大批的人群还是会自发地来这里参观、享受这里的惬意。tory of past annual pavilions naturally lead to a socialsituation in which crowds of people would visit the place因此，从某种意义上来说，我恰恰利用了这一点。on their own and enjoy as they please,even if it were a正如我所相信的一样，社会基本上应该是这样一个'primordial architecture'type of place.So in a sense,I地方：在那里，到处都是快乐的人群。人们乐意以不同的took advantage of that.方式在不同的、舒适的地方打发时间享受乐趣。当我说这Society as I believe it should be is,basically,full类事情的时候，人们认为我太天真了（大笑）。of people who love to spend their time having fun intheir own different ways in various places of comfort.环球筑：我们确实能看出来它是立在特殊的环And it's when I say this type of thing that people think境基础之上的。您保有这种天真，是因为某人或者某物在理素村网Z.Z沁.ETInterview:An Architect's Individuality is Derived from Relationships I'm innocent (laughs).保护着它。我想知道的是，在未来的岁月里，它会变成什GA We can really see that it's based on particular cir-么样。您的筑会变成什么样。如今，它会向着现实进一cumstances.You have this innocence because someone or步发展吗？something is protecting it.And I wonder what will becomeof it in the years to come.What will become of your archi-您将会以什么样的方式实现您的社会职责？到目前tecture,which is today progressing more toward reality?为止，您似乎还没有太多的关注这些事情。您还会继续这What will be your approach to social responsibili-样吗？随着您周围环境复杂性的增长，您的作品在规模上ties?It seems to me that up to now you haven't been也不断膨胀？much conscious about those things.Will you keep it目前，您的大型项目之一是台湾塔(2011-。P.54-)that way and let your work blow up in scale as the com-plexity of circumstances around you increases?台湾塔正是其走向现实过程中的产物。您计划怎样在一座One of your current large-scale project is Taiwan塔里反映1实现您在蛇形画廊里努力体现的‘为人们集会Tower(2011-,p.54-)which is now on its way to realiza-创造一个环境’的筑想法？tion.How are you planning to reflect/materialize in a藤本壮介：我认为我的内心有两个不同版本的我。他tower building your idea of 'creating a cue for people togather'that you tried to embody in Serpentine们总是在同一时间想出不同的想法。但是，我猜想，他们SF I feel that there are different versions of myself in的根源是一样的。me who think different things all at the same time.But蛇形画廊和终极木屋是我尝试在规模上重\重新定I guess they're all connected at the root.义更接近我们身体的筑。在规模大小的使用上，一个很Serpentine and Wooden House are my attempts to小的、局部的改变都会彻底影响整座筑的意义。我发现reconstruct/redefine architecture on a scale that is closer toour body.Using a size of scale in which a small,partial我的精力集中于一个接一个的小发现。另一方面，至于大change would radically affect the significance of the entire型项目台湾塔，地板或墙的改变在整幅画面里只是一些次architecture,I found myself concentrating-on making要的处理。因此：我尝试以自己的方式在较大的规模上重small discoveries one after another.On the other hand,in新解释、重新发现筑。人们在不同规模的筑里聚集的the case of a large-scale project such as Taiwan Tower,changes on floors or walls are just minor manipulations概念意味着人们的动作、行为和筑间完全不同的关系。within the whole picture.So I try to reinterpret/rediscover例如，我依据筑与城市的关系，以完全不同的尺寸来设architecture in my own way,on a massive scale.The计House NA和台湾塔。尽管如今我一直在努力探寻：notion of people gathering under a different scale means a我的理念在较大型的筑里能说明什么力量。totally different relationship between people's motions and环球筑：看着您的作品，我发现您还会做一些其behaviors and architecture.For example,I see House NA(2011)and Taiwan Tower from totally different dimen-他项目的模型。为了再使用，可以简单地按比例将其按比sions in terms of relationship with the city.Although例放大。today I am still trying to see what powers my proposals藤本壮介：您是对的（大笑）。但是并不是任何模型can demonstrate in larger scale projects.都能放大的。这取决于规模的改变是否能使筑发生有趣GA Looking at your works,I sometimes find you taking的变化。如果能，那么无论我在第一个地方发现了什么models from other projects and simply scaling them upfor reuse.有趣的东西，我都会将其表现在一个更大的形式里。蛇形SF You're right (laughs).But not any model can be画廊的栅格概念的放大版本将是中东地区的商业设施项目enlarged.It depends on whether or not by changing the(露天剧场Souk Mirage,P.176-,2013-望塔，P.182-,scale something interesting will happen in terms of2013-)。在那些分层的筑里，尺寸的增加导致了对更architecture.If it will,whatever I found interesting inthe first place will be expressed in a giant format.An高解决方案的需求，并且有了不同的意义。在这一案例里，enlarged version of Serpentine's grid concept would be关键点是分层筑的理念是否依然有效。筑素村网Z.Z沁.ET the commercial facilities projects in the Middle East中东地区的筑一般采用的正常跨距是5米。然而，(Souk Mirage,p.176-,2013-/Outlook Tower,p.182-,蛇形画廊的40cm×80cm的跨距是对筑规模的一种重2013-).Increase in size results in higher resolution and新解释。两者有着相同的观念，那就是将小房间连接到different meanings in those layered cells.In this case thekey point was whether or not the idea of layering cells起。但是，在中东筑里，房间都有正常的结构跨距和天would still hold effective.花板高度。好像这是对蛇形画廊的规模的重新发现的一种While Serpentine's 40 cm x 80 cm span is a reinter-自我否定。使我感兴趣的是，这些房间都是由拱形结构构pretation of architectural scale,the project in the Middle成的；自然光以一种复杂的、三维的方式渗透照射到这些East adopts a quite normal span of 5 m.Both share thesame idea of connecting small cells together,but in the房间里。我发现一件很有趣的事：该中心里，由多级空间Middle Eastern project the cells have normal structural透进来的阳光所包围的空间和它周围的分层布置的小型活span and ceiling height,as if it were a self-denial of Serpen-动空间的关系，从规模上来说，既谈不上是一种筑，也tine's rediscovery of scale.What attracted my interest was谈不上是一种城市形态。两者构成了一种起媒介作用的公the fact that because the cells are all made of round arches,共空间。natural light that passes through these cells is percolatedin a complex,three-dimensional manner.I found it inter-换句话说，假若这样，就不是这些房间本身有魅力。esting that the relationship between the space wrapped in吸引我的是层层叠叠的光穿过圆拱结构和多种圆形的三维such light introduced in the enormous multi-level void in层叠、通过这些拱形结构看蓝天的不同视角和包围在它们the center and the tiered layering of small-scaled activity之中的巨大空间。这形成了一种多层空间不断重叠的效spaces around it is neither architectural nor urban in terms果。似乎这表明了一种新的筑类型。人们可能会认为“这of scale,making up an intermediate public space.In other words,in this case,rather than the appeal个家伙所作的一切仅是在不同规模的筑上使用格橱，以on the cells themselves,what captured me was the layer of及批量生产。”但是，事实上，我不同意这种看法。light cut through round arches and through three-dimen-环球筑：对我来说这不像批量生产。但是，我nal layering of variou8oun吗ha即5 e divorsity of绝对肽贵您对单一模型的多样性的解释的能views of the sky through them and the enormous publicspace enveloped in all of them that create a place where藤本壮介：您也可以把这叫做不知廉耻（大笑）。multilayered scales overlap with one another,which环球筑：从积极方面来说，我会把它称之为一种seemed to demonstrate a new type of architectural qual-能力。ity.People might think "all that this guy does is just藤本壮介：我们一直在检验大量的想法，其中的大部apply grids in different scales and mass produce"but in分都是无用的。但是，时不时地，有些会经受住检验。当fact I'm having different ideas.GA For me it doesn't look like mass production but I蛇形画廊放在不同规模的背景下，这颗种子就会长得与众definitely appreciate your ability to deliver a variety of不同。尽管想法的种子是一样的，但是它会呈现出不同的interpretations from a single model (laughs).筑价值。就像种植了不计其数的庄稼。看着这些基因SF You may call it unscrupulous (laughs).代代地进行转变，我对他们进行筛选，挑选那些看起来有GA I'd call it an ability,in a good sense.趣的，扔掉那些不好的·因此，我也说不清我在向什么SF We've been testing a tremendous amount of ideas,most of which being useless,but now and then some get方向前进（笑）。to grow out it.When Serpentine is placed in a context of环球筑：因此，您将您眼前的不同模型打造成不different scale,the seeds start to grow differently,to offer同规模的筑，并感叹“噢！这个看起来很有趣。”different architectural values even if the seeds are the藤本壮介：有时，单纯就规模来讲，它也是不同的。same.It's like growing countless crops.Watching thegenes transform through generations,I sift through但有时，是项目或者文化背景的不同。如果不是在中东，them picking up those that look interesting and throw-我不会选择拱形结构。尽管它不会像那些常规的、死板的Interview:An Architect's Individuality is Derived from Relationships13筑素村阀Z.ZC.ET
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